Legislature(2021 - 2022)BUTROVICH 205
03/14/2022 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
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| Start | |
| SB219 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 219 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 14, 2022
3:34 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Joshua Revak, Chair
Senator Peter Micciche, Vice Chair
Senator Gary Stevens
Senator Natasha von Imhof
Senator Jesse Kiehl
Senator Scott Kawasaki
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Click Bishop
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 219
"An Act providing for the transfer of and addition of names to a
personal use cabin permit for a cabin on state land; and
providing for an effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 219
SHORT TITLE: TRANSFER PUBLIC USE CABIN PERMITS
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) MICCICHE
02/22/22 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/22/22 (S) RES
03/14/22 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
MADISON GOVIN, Staff
Senator Peter Micciche
Alaska State Legislature
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the sectional analysis for SB 219
on behalf of the sponsor.
CHRISTY COLLES, Chief of Operations
Division of Mining, Land, and Water
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on SB
219.
CINDY RAINY-BELL, Representing Self
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided invited testimony in support of SB
219.
ED MARTIN JR., Representing Self
Kenai, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 219, but with
reservations.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:34:42 PM
CHAIR JOSHUA REVAK called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:34 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Kawasaki, Stevens, Kiehl, von Imhof,
Micciche, and Chair Revak.
SB 219-TRANSFER PUBLIC USE CABIN PERMITS
3:35:37 PM
CHAIR REVAK announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 219
"An Act providing for the transfer of and addition of names to a
personal use cabin permit for a cabin on state land; and
providing for an effective date."
3:35:59 PM
SENATOR PETER MICCICHE, as sponsor of SB 229 introduced the
legislation speaking to the sponsor statement.
The Personal Use Cabin Permit Program (PUCP) was put
in place back in 1984 to solve an issue with folks
that had trespassed onto state land and built a cabin.
The original intention of the program was to keep the
land in state hands, but still have it available for
public use. HB 109 was passed in 1997. The bill
terminated the permit program with the intent for
those Alaskans to be given the opportunity to purchase
the land they had been leasing, which has not yet been
initiated by the Department. Many of the original
permits have expired. Originally there were 558
permits issued and only 126 remain. Over the
generations, Alaskan families have created beautiful,
lasting memories at these recreational cabins that
have become second homes for many. Since the repeal of
the program, once a family loses their permit due to
death of the permit holder, being late for renewal, or
a department mistake, the permit expires forever, and
the cabin must be removed from the land.
SB 219 is designed to solve one of the issues beyond
the control of a family with a permitted cabin. The
Bill creates the opportunity for an immediate family
member to apply for permit rights for the remaining
life expectancy of the original permit holder in the
case of a premature accidental death of the last
permit holder. The permit extension could not exceed
beyond the remaining term of the average life span of
an Alaskan, provided by the National Center for Health
Statistics. Currently, permits are non-transferrable
and are only valid for the lifetime of the permit
holder. Back when permits were still being issued, a
family was able to list multiple names on the permit
in the event of the death of the original permit
holder. However, once the program was repealed it has
not been possible for families to add names or
transfer their permits to keep it in the family.
Therefore, many families have lost their permits and
their cabins. SB 219 would allow the previously
expected use of permitted cabins on state lands while
DNR establishes a long-term solution to provide better
structure to the PUCP program, and the sale of state
lands for that purpose.
I urge your support of this bill to help families keep
their Personal Use Cabin Permits for the expected term
in the event of the premature death of the permit
holder. Please contact my staff, Madison Govin at 465-
8181 for additional information.
3:40:27 PM
MADISON GOVIN, Staff, Senator Peter Micciche, Alaska State
Legislature, Soldotna, Alaska, presented the sectional analysis
for SB 219 on behalf of the sponsor.
Section 1 - Amends the uncodified law of the State of
Alaska by adding a new section which allows for
Transfer of Permits for Personal Use Cabin on State
Land.
Subsection (a) Page 1 Line 6-Page 2, Line 9 - Outlines
the process by which a cabin permit may be transferred
to an immediate family member in the event of a pre-
mature death. The immediate family may assume
privileges of the permit for the remaining life
expectancy of the original permit holder, provided by
the National Center for Health Statistics.
Subsection (b) Page 2, Lines 10-15 - Directs DNR to
adopt regulations that would allow an immediate family
to assume the permit privileges.
Subsection (c) Page 2 Lines 16-22 - Requires the
immediate family member submit their name to the DNR
within 30 days of the death.
Subsection (d) Page 2 Lines 23-25 - Upon transfer, the
permit is only valid during the lifetime of the
immediate family member.
Subsection (e)(f) Page 2 Lines 26-31 - Directs the
department to adopt regulations necessary for
implementation of this section. Adds definition of
"personal use cabin permit".
Section 2 - Amends the uncodified law of the State of
Alaska to add Personal Use Cabin Permits that expired
on or after January 1, 2020, and before the effective
date of this act allowing the department to carry out
the intent of this legislation.
Subsection (a) Page 3 Lines 4-11 - The Department of
Natural Resources shall allow an immediate family to
assume privileges of the deceased permit holder's
permit if it expired on or after January 1, 2020.
Subsection (b) Page 3 Lines 12-15 - Adds that the
immediate family member of a permit holder who passed
between January 1, 2020 and the effective date, must
apply to the Department of Natural Resources within 60
days after the effective date for them to assume the
former privileges of the permit.
Subsection (c) Page 3 Lines 16-20 - Defines the period
of time which an immediate family member may assume
the permit privileges.
Section 3 - This Act takes effect immediately
3:42:45 PM
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked, in the event of a premature death,
whether the time remaining on the permit applies to when the
original permit holder would have reached age 78.8 or the
youngest permit holder whose name was also on the application.
She cited the example of an original permit holder who died at
age 60 and his 14 year old son who also had applied for the
permit.
3:43:40 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE answered that the calculation is based on the
expected life of the original permit holder. Vital statistics
sets the life expectancy for Alaska at 78.8 years so the permit
would be valid for 28.8 years after the 60-year-old original
permit holder died.
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked if 78.8 years referred to the female or
male life expectancy.
SENATOR MICCICHE answered that it would be unconstitutional to
differentiate so the bill matches generally with a combination
of both genders.
3:45:49 PM
SENATOR KIEHL asked if he could apply for one of these permits
tomorrow.
3:46:06 PM
MS. GOVIN answered no.
SENATOR KIEHL asked what language in the bill limits the
application to just those cabin permits that fall under the
Personal Use Cabin Permit Program (PUCP), so it wouldn't apply
to a new cabin permit program that starts tomorrow.
3:47:09 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE pointed to page 1 lines 11-12 that states that
a personal use cabin permit is valid only during the lifetime of
the original holder of the permit. He said that program is
closed, but he hopes a bill like the governor's SB 133 passes so
people can purchase these personal use cabins. Senate Bill 109
passed in 1997 and was designed for that, but it hasn't
happened. He repeated that he hopes that happens, but that isn't
what SB 219 is about.
SENATOR KIEHL asked what the language in the original permits
said that established the term.
3:49:09 PM
CHRISTY COLLES, Chief of Operations, Division of Mining, Land,
and Water, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Anchorage,
Alaska, explained that when the authorizing legislation passed
in 1984 or 1985, an individual who applied for a permit could
put just their name on the application or their name and anybody
else who had an interest in the cabin. Sometimes there were 10
or more names on an application. The permits were issued to the
person who was designated as the primary point of contact (POC).
That is who the division would contact. Those permits had a six-
year term and DNR was able to issue renewals for additional six-
year terms as long as the fees were paid and the permit was in
good standing. Anyone who was listed on the original application
was qualified to continue to renew the cabin site.
SENATOR KIEHL expressed satisfaction with the answer.
3:50:40 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked what happens to the cabin when the
original applicant reaches age 78.8 years of age. He
specifically asked if the state takes the cabin and if it's then
available for others to use.
MS. COLLES agreed with Senator Micciche that there were bills in
the process like the governor's SB 133 that would allow a person
to nominate a site for disposal, but as it stands now the site
would return to the state. DNR often asks any remaining
individuals to remove the cabin from the site, but if nobody is
left and the cabin is dilapidated, fish and game may coordinate
with DNR to remove the cabin.
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked why the program was repealed.
MS. COLLES answered that she wasn't sure about the legislative
intent for the repeal, but if she were to speculate it might be
due to the fact that there could be no new entrants because the
program was only open to people who already had a cabin
established on the site when the authorizing legislation passed
in the 1980s. The program initially had 558 cabins and now just
126 cabins are left.
3:53:20 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE offered his perspective that a contributing
factor in the repeal may have relied on the legislative intent
in HB 109 for a rewrite of the remote cabin permit program. The
thought at the time was that cabin permits that had been
reauthorized many times would be available for purchase when
there was a new program. He said he didn't know why there never
was a new program but this administration renewed the effort for
one because people were losing cabins that families had used and
enjoyed for generations. He cited one example of four
generations of a family that had used a cabin they built every
Thanksgiving and Christmas for the last 40-50 years. That permit
is still maintained in the program.
SENATOR MICCICHE said he'd like to see that expanded to provide
opportunities for other Alaskans that have cabins, but that's
for another bill. SB 219 is about ensuring that a family gets
the full use of their cabin as intended under the authorizing
legislation for the PUCP program.
3:55:40 PM
SENATOR VON IMHOF noted the interest in the program initially
and asked why a new bill hadn't been introduced to resurrect the
program.
SENATOR MICCICHE answered that a new bill has been introduced
and he'd like to get the department's perspective of expanding
what he sees as a very popular program.
3:58:03 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked whether the cabins attached to setnet
fishing sites were on state land.
SENATOR MICCICHE answered yes; typically there is a shoreside
lease on state land that is related to the setnet site. He
suggested the department comment but he didn't believe that
program would go away.
MS. COLLES explained that setnet sites are authorized through a
land use permit or lease program that DNR runs for commercial
operators. The leases are available for larger commercial
structures.
SENATOR STEVENS said he wanted assurance that SB 219 would in no
way affect the commercial setnet sites, it was an entirely
different program.
MS. COLLES agreed it was a different program. The PUCP program
was developed in the 1980s specifically to address trespass
cabins. To qualify for that program, the applicant had to have
an existing cabin.
4:00:43 PM
SENATOR KIEHL inquired how the PUCP program is differentiated
from the trapping cabin program or shelter cabins.
MS. COLLES answered that there are two statutes on the books for
existing trapping cabins prior to the 1984 timeframe. New
construction trapping cabin permits currently are authorized for
10 years and the permit holder must show that they are an active
trapper with a trapline in the area. Those permits have a
different set of fees and the authorizing structure is different
than for the PUCP program. Shelter cabins may qualify as a lease
if the use is for public and charitable purposes. Those are not
considered to be commercial.
4:02:43 PM
CHAIR REVAK opened invited testimony on SB 219.
4:02:54 PM
CINDY RAINY-BELL, Representing Self, Soldotna, Alaska, relayed
that her husband held the permit on a "duck shack" for a decade
before his untimely death at age 60. The family worked together
on the application, but their understanding was that only one
name could be on the permit. She contacted DNR after he died and
was told that since no other name was on the permit, the family
would unfortunately lose use of the site. His name was on the
permit because he was the youngest of the siblings. If the
family had known, they could and would have put the names of
other family members on the application.
4:04:25 PM
At ease.
4:05:22 PM
CHAIR REVAK reconvened the meeting.
CHAIR REVAK asked Ms. Rainy-Bell to submit her testimony to his
office or to sres@akleg.gov.
4:05:56 PM
CHAIR REVAK opened public testimony on SB 219.
4:06:18 PM
ED MARTIN JR., Representing Self, Kenai, Alaska, stated that he
supports SB 219, but he had reservations. First, he questioned
why the bill applies to PUCPs that expired on or after January
1, 2020 when there probably were people who passed away
unexpectedly due to COVID-19 in 2019. Second, he questioned the
crystal ball prediction of life expectancy when it's unclear
what will happen tomorrow. He said he sympathizes with the Bell
family as the son of a homesteader. He also reminded the
committee that he had repeatedly testified about the importance
of passing SB 84 and SB 133. He said those bills should have
been heard and passed today because the pioneer spirit of Alaska
is wrapped up in the ownership of land whether it is resource
extraction or recreation.
4:09:14 PM
CHAIR REVAK closed public testimony on SB 219.
He agreed that a number of bills about various aspects of cabin
use were in this committee, and he urged the public and
committee members to contact his office to talk about how to
combine elements of those bills to resolve issues associated
with cabin uses.
CHAIR REVAK asked the sponsor if he had any closing comments.
SENATOR MICCICHE clarified that January 1, 2020 was not chosen
arbitrarily. It was chosen based on the analysis of which of the
properties were salvageable.
CHAIR REVAK held SB 219 in committee.
4:10:49 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Revak adjourned the Senate Resources Standing Committee
meeting at 4:10 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 219 Historical Documents 3.14.2022.pdf |
HRES 5/6/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/14/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 219 |
| SB 219 Sectional Analysis 3.14.2022.pdf |
HRES 5/6/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/14/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 219 |
| SB 219 Sponsor Statement 3.14.2022.pdf |
HRES 5/6/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/14/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 219 |
| SB 219 Version B.PDF |
SRES 3/14/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 219 |